(Photo by Marshall Fischer)

By Austin Kaus

The Dead Milkmen are fond of pseudonyms, but their sound has never been anything but authentic (albeit often sarcastic). After forming in the early 80’s as a reaction to the serious punks of the day, the Philadelphia foursome toured the world, dabbled in MTV recognition with 1988’s “Punk Rock Girl” and kept things heartfelt and weird until their breakup in 1995.

When bass player Dave Blood (Dave Schulthise) intentionally overdosed on pills on March 10, 2004, Rodney Anonymous (Rodney Linderman), Joe Jack Talcum (Joseph Genaro) and Dean Clean (Dean Sabatino) temporarily reunited with help of new bassist Dandrew (Dan Stevens) to pay tribute to their fallen brother. But an offer to reunite for the 2008 Fun Fun Fest led to a real return and they’ve since released The King in Yellow (2011) and this year’s Pretty Music for Pretty People. From his home in Philly, vocalist and guitarist Joe Jack Talcum talked to me about his fascination with science and the spiritual world.

How was your Thanksgiving? At the risk of sounding like a jerk, was it the best Thanksgiving ever? [This is a reference to the band’s 1992 b-side “Bitchin’ Camaro (The Best Thanksgiving Ever)”]

JJT: (laughs) It was great. I can’t say that it was the best ever.

Speaking of holidays, I’d never heard your old song “Christmas Party” until recently. What’s the story there?

JJT: Dave and I wrote that and recorded it on our own and attached it to the Somebody Shot Sunshine album, which we gave away for free as a Christmas gift to all the people who were signed up for our newsletter at that time. We had recorded that album Somebody Shot Sunshine to be our follow up to [1984’s cassette-only release] Death Rides a Pale Cow. We recorded it on [drummer] Dean’s four-track cassette in his parents’ basement.

Did inspiration strike or did you go in saying that you needed to write a Christmas song?

JJT: This was my memory of what happened. That was going to be our next tape that we were going to sell but, in the time it transpired while we were getting it together, we got the record deal with Fever [for the] Big Lizard in my Backyard album. Colin of Fever Records asked us…to stop selling our tapes because the songs that were on the tapes would be on the album that would be coming out. We never actually sold a Somebody Shot Sunshine tape, but Dave had already made a cover for it and we already had it organized.

We decided to give it away as a Christmas gift like the Beatles. Every Christmas, [the Beatles] had a 7” that they would send out to the people in the fan club. It would have a Christmas message, so we decided to put on the other side of the tape a Christmas message, our parody of the Beatles kind of doing that. It was Rodney, Dean and I got together and just recorded an impromptu message. Dave and I already had this Christmas song recorded so we added this to the track list of songs. It, in effect, made the album become our Christmas giveaway. I’m pretty sure it was our only Christmas giveaway that we had.

The band restarted the newsletter a few months ago. Does that mean there will be a Christmas surprise coming?

JJT: I can’t say, but no. (laughs) Maybe Dean has something up his sleeve. I don’t know.

Beer plays a pretty heavy part in the song. Do you have a certain beer that you like to drink around Christmas time?

JJT: I don’t drink beer anymore, but I did. I don’ t think I had any particular favorite beer back then in 1984. I grew a taste for Guinness.

I think I’ve heard that pop up in a few songs.

JJT: (laughs) Yeah. So probably that would’ve been my favorite beer anytime of the year.

Your Guinness days are behind you?

JJT: Yeah.

What led to that?

JJT: I felt that I was drinking too much and I decided I didn’t want to do it as much anymore. I stopped completely in the summer of 2008. It just so happens that was right before we got the invitation to play Fun Fun Fun Fest. The Milkmen weren’t back together again yet.

It was a number of things. Health was a factor. The doctor I had at the time suggested I cut back. I was diagnosed as having high blood pressure in the early 2000’s. At that time, he said … “Try to limit your drinking to two drinks maximum” which I didn’t do. I didn’t listen to his advice at that time. He also said that there’s some kind of blood test indication of possible liver problem which we never did follow up tests for … but he just suggested cutting back on drinking because of that.

Was it easy to do?

JJT: It wasn’t easy for me to do until I just eliminated it completely. My way to cut back was just to not drink anything at all. I was in a band called The Low Budgets and I had started playing solo shows too, so I was in bars a lot. You get a lot of free drinks in bars when you’re a performer. The natural thing would be to get to the bar…and start drinking even before the show started. I guess you could say I was a heavy drinker in a band of heavy drinkers. I actually got a DUI after one of our shows driving to the place we were staying. That was in 2007. I think that had a psychological effect as well (laughs) dealing with that court case and everything, the lawyer, the lawyer fees…oh my goodness.

The universe lined up. I stopped drinking for the period of time after I was arrested and by the time my court case came up, it wasn’t even fun for me again. I tried again after that, but I decided the best psychological thing for me was just to say I’m not a drinker. Then I don’t have the first drink when I get to the gig. I just don’t drink at all. The surprising thing was that performing even with the Low Budgets was no less fun. It was maybe even more fun. I have wine now and then. I don’t drink beer or hard liquor.

Is this the second Milkmen album since being essentially sober?

JJT: Yes.

Did you notice differences between making music then and when you were doing it 20 years ago as far as being sober? Is it different to write songs? To be in the studio?

JJT: There are some differences in the way we work together as a band, but my memory of studio sessions with the Milkmen, they were really dry. They didn’t involve drugs or drinking. (laughs) There was drinking going on after recording and there was definitely pot smoking going on during mixing sessions because the producer we used liked to smoke it. There was a specific rule that you couldn’t smoke anything in the studios because smoke damaged the equipment and I never recorded anything except while sober with the Milkmen. I think the other Milkmen were the same way including overdubs. I don’t remember partying in the studio. We recorded a song with an overdub that we purposely made sound like a party and there may have been actual drinks at that time. (laughs) I don’t recall. It was all for the recording. [It was] “Do The Brown Nose.”

Did harder drugs ever play any role for you guys?

JJT: Dave and I took LSD a couple of times together. It definitely played a part when you take it. You’re thinking of things. I didn’t try to write any songs or do anything musically. I certainly could not even imagine performing that way. Heroin and coke? I never did that stuff.

When it comes to the Dead Milkmen, it seems like there are kind of Rodney songs and Joe songs. Is that how it goes where you bring stuff and he brings stuff and you work on it together or is it more intertwined than that?

JJT: It’s even more intertwined than that because there’s also Dean’s stuff. There used to be Dave’s stuff and now there’s Dan’s stuff. It’s not as straightforward as a song that Rodney sings, it’s not necessarily the lyrics that he wrote. I sing lyrics that Rodney or Dean might’ve wrote. Dean only sang one song ever. He’s a lyric writer as well as a music writer. He’s in that mix. You just don’t know it. We don’t disclose it either.

How do you make the decision on what you sing as opposed to what Rodney sings?

JJT: We make it as a group, but Rodney will sometimes make the decision based on what he feels our best abilities are. There’s a song called “Mary Ann Cotton.” Dean wrote the music for it and then Rodney put the lyrics over it. He made a demo of his singing it but he [said] “Even when I made the lyrics and…the demo, I made it for Joe to sing.”

So it’s not as simple as the song belongs to the person that’s singing it on the record?

JJT: Correct. It never was even from the very start.

(Talcum and Anonymous, Minneapolis, June 7, 2013. Photo by Jim McFarlane)
(Talcum and Anonymous, Minneapolis, June 7, 2013. Photo by Jim McFarlane)

I didn’t know if you and Rodney were the Lennon/McCartney of the Dead Milkmen or not.

JJT: Correct. That’s not true. There are no two central songwriters.

You kind of purposely don’t put out which songs Dean writes? Why do it that way?

JJT: I don’t know. There’s some kind of fun in mystery. The way we decided that in 1984 when we put our publishing company together and our idea of splitting the songwriting four ways was to compensate what we thought was an unfairness in the way publishing works – at least in the United States. Because despite who brings the idea, the entire band is arranging the songs. There should be compensation for those people who are doing that arrangement work. We are pretty fair in it’s never been one person doing more work than anybody else. We split it up that way and, for ease of accounting and keeping egos in check, we just decided to keep it credited as The Dead Milkmen and split it four ways monetarily and credit-wise. That was our original reason.

I don’t know if every band could do that.

JJT: It’s maybe not for every band and maybe not every band works that way.

I wonder if people that read this interview will start screaming “Socialism” during your shows.

JJT: (Laughs) Rodney would take that as a compliment.

I want to throw some questions at you related to some of the tracks on the album. On the first track, Rodney talks about “the music is all about enjoyment” and it’s pretty sarcastic. What’s the music about to you as both a listener and a performer?

JJT: For me, music is spiritual. It’s mystical. It’s from…a world that’s beyond our immediate consciousness. Music itself is just music…the tones, the vibrations. It’s the mood it puts us in when we hear it.

Do you feel a connection with Dave during certain songs or certain performances? A presence?

JJT: For the memorial show, I felt a strong presence. I don’t always but there are times even in practice when Dandrew will start the riff of “Serrated Edge” and I’ll think of Dave playing that riff.

Does that act as sort of a spiritual cement, like there’s definitely something out there because you’re feeling that?

JJT: Probably, yes.

We both were raised in pretty Christian households. Where’s your spirituality now?

JJT: Right now, I believe in Jesus. I have my own issues with Christianity as a religion but, on my spiritual journey, I still believe that there is more to life than what we see and feel and hear. I may be opposed to other people in the band on this, but that’s what I believe.

Did music always strengthen that for you? Has music always played a role when you’re processing spiritual things?

JJT: It’s hard for me to speak to that. Music’s always been a part of my life. Things that I don’t remember that my parents tell me about, I was always attracted to records and music. Yes, I always felt that it had a spiritual quality to it even if I didn’t know to say it in those terms.

Is there a specific Christmas song that still hits that spiritual vibe where it’s more than a song to you?

JJT: Hymns in general because they are acknowledging the spirit, the spirit of the holy spirit or Jesus or God or whatever.

What are some songs outside the Christian realm that affect you?

JJT: Just about anything by Bach. I guess he wrote from a spiritual place. Johnny Cash. Bob Dylan.

What about one of your own?

JJT: I think there are some Dead Milkmen songs that you could put there.

Any in particular?

JJT: There’s “All Around The World.” “Life Is Shit,” in a strange way.

When I filmed your Songs From A Couch, I requested “The Guitar Song” because that one always – especially the Momma line – gets to me. I thought “He’s probably got this big spiritual story” and when I asked you about it, you basically said “Yeah, I was writing it when I was hanging out with this guy’s cat.”

JJT: (Laughs) Exactly. I don’t want to give away too much about origins of songs either because then it might ruin the larger meaning that is just as real to the listener, even if it wasn’t intentional.

Let’s get back to the new album. For “Big Words Make The Baby Jesus Cry,” what’s the worst experience you’ve had with a big word?

JJT: I don’t use big words very often. (laughs) For me, it’s probably about pronouncing it properly. Is it presh-int or pres-cient? I didn’t write that song so I don’t feel comfortable speaking to what it’s about. I think I know what it’s about. It’s anti-anti-intellectualism. That’s my grab.

Who is the guy leaving the answering machine message at the end of “Make It Witchy”?

JJT: The answering machine was a message left on…Rodney’s office number at work is very close in number to the number for the Philadelphia paper. If you have a subscriber complaint, that’s the number to call. He gets a lot of wrong numbers because the numbers are so close. This message came up on his answering machine one day and he saved it and thought it was funny.

I imagine him fielding complaints as a perceived customer service representative could be really funny.

JJT: Yeah. (laughs) That would maybe be kind of where his humor is not appropriate. (laughs)

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(Photo by Ronnie Baker)

“Mary Ann Cotton” is the first one you sing on the album. Was that something you were involved in writing or just ended up singing in?

JJT: I just ended up singing.

I looked up her story. Deadly lady.

JJT: Yeah, she was something else before serial killing became popular.

Are things like poisons and solvents something you think are a theme in your music?

JJT: Not on purpose, but I guess you could go all the way back to “Watching Scotty Die.”

It even comes up in “Sanitary Times” a little bit.

JJT: That’s one I actually wrote.

What’s your interest in that world of solvents and chemicals?

JJT: The mystery’s kind of cool. There’s definitely mystery involved. I like anything with a little mystery involved. Chemicals are cool. It’s like playing with fire. You don’t know what’s going to happen. It’s like any kind of technology. We think, “Well, this is modern medicine. It’s saving lives.” It’s got anti-bacterials and years later it turns out it wasn’t the greatest thing in the world and we didn’t realize this. Science is never completely accurate about anything. It’s always striving to correct itself and technology is based upon that science. It’s interesting.

Is there anything in this world that doesn’t have mystery to it?

JJT: I don’t know. That’s a good philosophical question.

That might be too philosophical for a Sunday afternoon.

JJT: Let me ponder that.

Here’s a weirder one. Regarding “The Great Boston Molasses Flood,” what type of condiment flood would you prefer?

JJT: (laughs) I guess either mustard or mayonnaise. Maybe mayonnaise. Mustard’s my favorite but then I was thinking that might stain. So mayonnaise might be better. It has an oily thing to it. I’m trying to think of the ramifications.

What are you hoping to get for Christmas this year?

JJT: Tea or coffee.

I saw in the last newsletter that you wrote about tea. You made me feel lazy about my tea. Does the flavor make that much difference between the bags and doing it yourself?

JJT: Yeah. Try it. Give it a test try.

Where should I start?

JJT: I don’t mean to be a snob about it. I recommend Dilmah. They’re a company from Sri Lanka and they produce exceptionally good teas. They divide them by elevations. They also have teas that are blended with flavors, but the Watte series is my favorite.

Are you a purist?

JJT: I am a purist. I don’t add milk or sugar or lemon to my tea.

What’s next for the Milkmen or Joe or both?

JJT: We are working now on a song that we’re going to record in January for a series called Shaking Through. The idea is that the recording of the song is videotaped and made into a mini-documentary. It’s part of the Weathervane project, a non-profit here in Philadelphia run by Brian McTear who was the engineer…half of King In Yellow and all of Pretty Music For Pretty People. Everybody can see the process of the recording of the song from beginning to end. It takes place in a day. If you’re a member, you can download all of the individual tracks and do your own mix. That’s what we’re working on now.

Are things pretty much back in full motion for you guys in terms of recording and planning tours?

JJT: We are planning tours. We haven’t thought about another album. We’re still working on this one now. You should see us doing a bit more touring in 2015. We’re doing our best to do as much planning as possible.

(Minneapolis, June 7, 2013. Photo by Jim McFarlane)
(Minneapolis, June 7, 2013. Photo by Jim McFarlane)

What do you do when you’re not making music?

JJT: I work on software.

Dean works on software as well, right?

JJT: So does Rodney. It just worked out that way. Dan doesn’t work on software. (laughs) He’s the youngin’.

What’s your official title?

JJT: I think it is Software Quality Assurance Lead. I lead the team that does QA.

Has being in a band taught you how to be a better leader?

JJT: Interestingly, being in a band and having our company – so to speak – and sort of doing our own thing has indeed made us good leaders in the business world. I think Rodney has said that in different words before.

We’re uniquely qualified for things. (laughs)

For more information on Joe and The Dead Milkmen, head to jacktalcum.com and deadmilkmen.com. Check out the Weathervane Music project here.

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